- Is it always wrong to be selfish?
- Is it ever acceptable or even good to be selfish?
We then broadened our questions by asking, "What makes an action/choice good or bad, right or wrong?" Utilitarianism offers an often-compelling answer... here are some links:
Utilitarianism (Encyclopedia Britanica)
Utilitarianism (Catholic Encyclopedia)
Peter Singer is a contemporary and often controversial utilitarian. Google his name and you’ll start to get an idea of just how controversial he is. Here’s a couple links:
Happiness, Money, and Giving it Away
I hope you can take some time to thoughtfully read and consider at least one of these links before you begin to form an opinion of Singer... if you'd like to discuss Singer, Utilitarianism, or Singer's brand of Utilitarianism... please post a comment!
5 comments:
I'm becomming a little concerned about the direction that these ideas are being taken.. I think that several different concepts are being mixed and confused in these last few conversations.. By bringing the philosophies by which someone presents themselves and acts day to day should not be tied in to the concept of "selfishness", because no matter what personal philosophy or ideal someone lives by they will be capable of acting in disregard to others.
I think that if Utilitarianism is going to start being discussed, it should not be tacked on to the idea of selfishness. If anything, selfishness is just one, minor aspect of this and other personal philosophies like it (Or in opposition to it).
I didn't like the idea of selfishness from the start. I think it is an idea that is far too disorganized and obscure to be a discussion point, far before even a concensus on the nature of "Self" was established. By no fault of anyone, without this necesary background ideas, the concepts of selfishness and greed were confused and considered the same..and I think that this may be because those are not so much concepts that stand on their own, but aspects of far more basic and harder to understand ones
Hi Ian,
Thanks for the feedback… I am eager for input you and the others who have made extra efforts in our club… my simple hope as advisor is be a philosophical sherpa-of-sorts in our search for a deeper understanding and/or meaning/answers to YOUR questions/interests.
John’s catalytic e-mail contained quite a few suggestions, and I wasn’t sure how to best move forward with them. Many of John’s concerns seemed to center around a concern of whether we should live for ourselves and our own interests (be selfish) or live in a more considerate/communal/socialist way. Both John and Singer seem to be concerned with what Singer calls the ultimate practical question: 'How are we to live?’
If you’d like to offer some more specific ideas about how be can best move forward, refine our discussion, and/or begin anew… I’m all ears :)
Well, thanks for that, and I really appreciate what you have been doing. Sorry if my comments come off as overly negative..I need to try to work around that.
I still think the concept of selfishness is too simplistic to be the major point of discussion. We as human beings live as "selves" and unless there is someone who lives in a world of perfect empathy, it would be hard to go much further.
What I was trying to get at in my suggestions for the discussion (I don't want to speak for john), was not personal gain at the expense or suffering of others, but rather how we regard others. As beings of self, with our selfishness, compassion, empathy, how do we view the role of other people and even less personal outside influences in the larger scheme of things. Basically, what truth is there Beyond ourselves? Is there any?
it's my fault that I didn't originally express this very well. I wound up describing the social attitudes that stem from whatever ideas people have in regards to others, and I think that would be worthwhile to discuss as well, but not right away.
This Peter Singer fella. I understand the things that he is saying, but I still don't understand just what point he is trying to drive. His perfect vision actually worries me a little bit. It seems as though he (and all his utilitarian friends) want to eliminate all suffering of all creatures in the world, but at the expense of all joy and pleasure.. It's like philosophical communism, if you have any capacity for happiness for yourself or even those imediately around you, the ones you love and care for, you have no right to it..His world seems colorless and...worst of all, unnatural.
What are your thoughts on that? What is the role of nature and the "order of things" in personal satisfaction and happiness? Does it leave any room for the happiness and satisfaction of others?
I hope these ideas were coherent enough. I don't want to sound as if I am demanding topics be brought up for discussion, I was trying to offer suggestions for the next class while trying to start one here at the same time..hope they come out separate enough!
-Ian
"...I understand the things that he is saying, but I still don't understand just what point he is trying to drive. His perfect vision actually worries me a little bit..."
Me too!
However, he makes some very compelling arguments, which I'm hoping will be powerful enough to press us forward in our search for what makes something right or wrong.
Many people find Singer's arguments and conclusions quite disturbing, and yet it can be very difficult to point out why he is wrong, or compose a successful and/or equally compelling counterargument...
... that's what I plan on doing with the club this Thursday: work on some counterarguments...
-mrb
Ok i just read the article about the cunsumption of meat and the Mad Cow diese. That completely grossed me out. Not only because they feed the cows sheep brains and nerves, but the fact that they feed them chiken poo and slaughterhouse waste!!!!! i mean seriously if we just controlled who could have the cows then most of this would be solved. Because if we knew who was feeding and caring for the cows then we don't have to think twice about it but the fact that we ARE questioning where the cows are coming from is the scary part. Even though people might say well i know this, this, and this place but that doesnt mean they know where every single one of them are. I mean as Americans most of us don't think twice about where the meat comes from when we buy it. I know its a little off topic but today in Bio we did a quote that read, "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." written by Alebert Einstein. It relates because no matter how many people get sick there will always be people who buy it. Another good example is us going to war, there really is no point anymore. Idk i think im just rambling so ill say good bye for now lol
Alex
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